Sunday, April 02, 2006

Harmonies of Liberty

This past Friday March 31, 2006, I attended a "symposium on the Role of Religion in Public Life" entitled "The Harmonies of Liberty." I was encouraged to see that most panelists were near in unison in stating words similar to that of President of Interfaith Alliance of Alabama Nick Foster, that "both faith and policy benefit from separation." One panelist did, in questioning Judge William H Pryor, Jr., ask if a more symbiotic nature might be possible. Surprisingly enough this panelist was no meddlesome Baptist preacher, but instead Yusuf Salaam Alabama House of Representatives, D-Selma, who professes faith in islam. Yusuf Salaam professes faith in islam and defends it in vague and general terms of it being an "Abrahamic and Adamic" faith of "8 million Americans" who are "fervent believers in the democratic process." Even stating that "there is no conflict of islam with science." I had to laugh at that point.

I asked no questions of Mr. Salaam during the question and answer period of the panel, unable to distract myself from other lines of inquiry that were being posed. I was however able to have an interesting conversation with Mr. Salaam after the panel. He did seem to declare the mullahs of iran apostate. Of course these were not his exact words, but in each example that I raised in demonstrating that every creed and color of man was being slaughtered in the name of islam, he declared that, in that situation, true islam was not being practiced. I can not recall him citing any koran. He accused me of being mis-informed and of course he asked me if I read Arabic. I responded by asking him if he read Arabic, if so he should soon start work on a new translation of the koran, pointing out that a large number of muslims had to rely on the very same translations as myself. Interestingly, he pointed out that a large number of muslims were illiterate. I'm not sure what point that was meant to make. But it was in keeping with his continual attempt to distance his "true" islam from any actual practice of islam on the globe. In a March 18, 2004 article with Liz Maziarz, Mr. Salaam displayed more of this desire to separate his "universal Islam" (which seems very exclusive) from any Arab influence.


Salaam yearns to see American Muslims "stop being scaredy cats and consolidate political power." He feels that a lack of cultural identity on the part of African Americans has led to the success of orthodox Islam within that community, but that it is essential for African American Muslims to retain a freedom of intellect, because he sees no point in "trading Caucasian slave masters for Arab slave masters."

He attempted to dissuade me from my denouncement of islam by suggesting he could not , implying a fear of offending me, cite the acts of the Ku Klux Klan in a discussion of Christianity. I told him he certainly could bring up such things, that Christianity had been able to confront and conquer such blights exactly because it was brought to light. And that in emulation of that model, he, who seemed to yearn for a reformation of the practice of islam, should welcome that the onslaught against an islam, did lend a legitimacy to a would- be reformer such as himself.

When I brought up Aisha, he first asked me what I thought was wrong with a nine year old girl being married off to an older man? I asked, What volition can a nine year old child display in choosing a mate? Mr. Salaam, then cited that arranged marriages had occurred in Western civilization ( to nine year olds?). I conceded that arranged marriages had occurred in Western civilization but that having conquered that evil, I saw no reason we should turn back. That mohamed should in no way be emulated.


6 Comments:

Blogger Always On Watch said...

Interesting meeting, huh?

I would amend the following: both faith and policy benefit from separation

Faith is impossible to separate from one's being if one is serious about that faith. But separating organized religion from govenment--that's what I believe in.

Any organized riligion in tandem with government has almost always resulted in tragedy for lots of innocent people.

"Abrahamic and Adamic" faith

That's a Muslim catch-phrase and an attempt to forge a bond. Watch out for it. Enough research will show you how Islam plagiarizes, then twists, the Abrahamic faith and Christianity as well. For example, this past weekend a Muslim visited my site and stated that Jesus and His disciples reverted to Islam. What a crock!

Personally, I don't have confidence in interfaith dialogue because I have observed that Christian leaders compromise but others stand firm.

He did seem to declare the mullahs of iran apostate.

Opposing Islamic sects have said that for centuries. See Michener's Caravans for an objective evaluation.

Nevertheless, the mullahs have always been able to exert great influence. Why? Because it takes only a few terrorizers to control many.

Good post, MG!

4/03/2006 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

I found the following at a blog site over the weekend. The English is broken, but you might want to wade through:

Hi guys..
All over the net, muslims tell us that we dont know the quran, or the quran we read is not approved by there religios "bosses"...well..I made in last days an effort and read that fairytail book. Now I want to start the hadiths...to enlight myself. Here I have my first 10 issues.

I hope that this can be a proove about imperfections in Quran, or more...I also hope that people will start also thinking what they read, not only read.
So, after I read the Quran, I have noticed some unclear things. I dont claim that I am 100% holding the true, but to me appear as heavy contradictions or stupid (non-god specific) misstakes. If I am wrong, please correct me...
So..lets see...I am wrong, or not ?
(extract from quran presented on islamicity.com )

1). During Moses time, god (allah) said that
he love also jews and christians.
note...
a).during Moses times, there was no christians.
b).if god said to Moses that he will accept also jews and christians, what religion was Moses ?
c). did not know allah that christians was not present at that time ?

...anyway...after allah said he protect also jews and christians, after some verses he change his mind. He will kill all jews and christians.
see quran...9:30

also during reading from 2:1 to 2:200 from a peacefull idea about jews and christian, it is a constant crescendo until he decide to kill us all, exempt muslims I think...

2). Men and woman are equal, but men is more equal than the woman. ( 2:228 )

then Mohamed probably forget next day where was he stop last day...there are some verses that dont have any connection. See 2:230 - 2:237 (rules about divorce )...at 2:238 he just lost the idea...but at 2:240 he remember...

3). at a momment in a specific context, Mohamed just remember that they must fight, without any link with the text before, and most comic, fight, ok...but against who ??
and imediatly he forget about fight, and continue the idea. (see context 2:244)

4) From 2:250 to 2:265 is a total dezaster. No clear idea, no link between the ideas, the form of expresion is low...unapropriate for "God's word"...not even for normal persons..

5) Count the angels ( one ? or more ??)
see 19:17 in contradiction with 3:44-3:45

6) how many years have one day of god ?
22:47 ....1000 years
70:4 ...50000 years
(do I must calculate the average ?)

7) here is an example of ..I dont know to say...for insane people, even coming from god...was god ? or Mohamed was angry ?
see 7:27 (a normal god will increase the faith in people...right ?...well...not this one...he will create satanic forces and send them over people ..sick..brain damage here..it cant be god...god is good)

8) Now, lets see...all over, in all monotheistic religions, god create everything in 6 days, and in the 7-th he rest. With one exception, quran:
41:9...god create earth in 2 days
41:10..after god create earth, he spend 4 more days to create the mountains and other nice things on earth
41:12...god create the sky, univers and the 7 heavens...but that make him spend 2 more days..
OOPS...8 days ???
Yo, somebody was missing at math hours, and it is not me.

9) when islam was born ? arround year 600 AC ? well..not according to quran
7:143...Moses, the first believer on earth.
39:12...Mohamed, the first believer on earth.

10) Muslims acuses us, christians, because of the treekee word "trinity", that we pray to 3 gods. Well, in few places also the quran said that there are more than one god..
7:141..."WE saved you from Pharaon..." god (gods) to Moses, in Moses's remember
7:142..."..and WE bring Moses on Sinai mountain for 30 nights, and WE decided to add 10 more nights to fullfil the 40 nights.."
7:143..."...and Moses came to Sinai mountain at the time choosen by US.."
so, also in quran somebody forgot...

well, this are the first 10 from the list.
when somebody will explain those abnormalities for a "holly book", I come with next 10...

4/03/2006 08:14:00 PM  
Blogger maccusgermanis said...

Thanks AOW,
Faith may inspire and convict but I think policy must be fashioned from tragic thinking. Men are not angels, and a profession of faith in God will never make them so.

"Adamic"
My brother mocks this claim by pointing out that only Gnostics claim a hidden "Adamic" faith.

4/03/2006 09:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Mustafa Kamel said...

As AOW said, 'Abrahamic' is a Muslim buzzword used in attempts to forge a bond with Christians and Jews.

In contrast, when trying to forge bonds with Buddhists, Sikhs and Hindus, they speak of 'Asian values' as against the ex-coloniaiists from the corrupt materialistic West.

Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs and Hindus are not particularly impressed - they know too much of their own history.

But most Christians are ignorant of the history of Islamic depredations against their religion and are likely to swallow this bait.

The one fact that we should never forget about Islam, is that alone amongst religions (with the exception of Satanism and Nazi cults), it is NOT based on the Golden Rule (do not do to another what would be hurtful to you).

See
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005959.php

The nearest Islam can get to The Golden Rule is "None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself."

Non-Muslims are excluded as are Muslim women. So you can do what you like to molls and members of other gangs. This is the ethics of the Mafia.

Whereas Buddhists and Christians meditate on the 'Peace that passeth all understanding' Muslims meditate on war.

Islam is the only religion that deliberately cultivates minds of hatred.

Islam cannot be reformed or made socially acceptable.

If I were to pick up a turd and cover it with marzipan and icing sugar, then gift-wrap it in colored paper and ribbons and present it to you, it would still in its deepest core remain a piece of shit.

4/04/2006 05:35:00 PM  
Blogger maccusgermanis said...

lol, mustafa
I agree that islam is rotten to its core, but also think a great many muslims are ignorant of this fact. I believe an earnest attempt of a muslim to understand and moderate islam would lead to their own apostacy. But, of course, so many of these would be reformers are just prevaricating. What I like to ask of them is why they think we infidels are there audience. Whatever the core, the observable practice of islam is something evil. Why is the reformers defense of islam always directed against the observer, rather than the supposed heretic?

4/04/2006 06:11:00 PM  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mustafa: most Christians are ignorant of the history of Islamic depredations against their religion and are likely to swallow this bait

The churches and the schools have seen to that!

4/05/2006 06:35:00 AM  

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