Sunday, June 18, 2006

Harper's Mews believes that islam is a religion of peace.

I recently discovered that I had left a discussion unfinished at The Muhammad Cartoons — Who Is Sillier?

By maccusgermanis on 03.06.06 9:57 pm
On what do you base your belief that islam is a peaceful religion?
An apostate, who has taken the name Ali Sina, adresses this misconception.

By Bruce -- Harper Blue on 03.11.06 10:19 am
I would base it on the past history of Muslims up until recent years, and even today for a large number — the overwhelming majority, indeed — of the Muslim population. Just as we say or claim that Islam has no reason to condemn the whole of Christianity for the acts of a relative handful in the Crusades and other times, so I would point out that we cannot condemn the whole of Islam. Most of the faith’s followers are peaceful, law-abiding and yet quite observant. The acts of the extremist minority, on the other hand, who have been incited by the clerics for either a highly conservative religious agenda, or hidden political purposes, are the ones that get all the attention…and thus tar all of the faithful with the same brush.
The maxim, “Don’t judge a book by its cover,” applies to the Middle East as well as to the United States. Consider this in future.

By MaccusGermanis on 06.16.06 5:16 pm
I feel I must apologize for my tardiness in rejoining this discussion. I had not realised that you had rather sanctimoniously responded to me.
You would do well to “consider” “in the future” that you should avoid using broad generalizations in critiqueing such generalizations. In my comment, I did post a link to a site created and maintained by former muslims. The generalizations that they make are of a more intimate variety and much more useful than your platitudes concerning “the overwhelming majority” of muslims. Please understand that these former muslims have come from that overwhelming majority of muslims, ignorant (just as most christians) of their faith.
You would do well to “consider” “in the future” that muslims have found themselves inspired to violence in more than just the past few years. In fact that muslims had looted Rome in 836 AD, well before the Catholic Church had consolidated its influence on Europe enough to answer the call for help coming from a beseiged Eastern Orthodox Church in 1095 AD.

By harperbruce on 06.18.06 12:43 am

"You would do well to “consider” “in the future” that muslims have found themselves inspired to violence in more than just the past few years. "

As have Christians, and those who proclaim themselves Christians, as well.

You so readily concede on one of your basis that islam is a religion of peace?

Unfortunately, as I noted in the main article, the key ingredient here is the human factor, the behavior of the disciples of whichever faith, [is]not of the faith itself.

Duh!, That is rather the point of reading what apostates, learned in the koran, hadith, and sunna have to say about their discarded religion.

Those examples you note of Muslim behavior can be countered by everything from the acts of the Crusaders (no, we cannot forget about them)
I do not ask for you to forget about them. I do ask that you get the dates right.

to the Spanish Inquisition
What about the Reconquista? Surely muslims were pissed off when leaving the Iberian land that they had violently occupied

, to Serbians in more recent times.
I'm guessing you've never heard of the Handzar SS.

You create a dangerous standard by making excuses for the actions of muslims. Every example of violence you have mentioned is predated by muslim aggression. If you wish to take a stand against the general principle of violence then you must be against islam, which is most consistently encouraging of violence.

I’m afraid this is a case of “You must believe what you will, for I will believe what I will,

Is that why comments are turned off?

and we can both produce evidence to supposedly support our claims.

I wish that some consensus or via media could be reached here;
Well here I am.

but, as I also pointed out in the main article above, it does not appear likely.
We agree on

I can only add this, spoken by a notoriously independent thinker — Thomas Jefferson — and which appears occasionally from my quote jar on the sidebar:
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship,…”

Jefferson was clearly mistaken. Belief and faith are, of necessity personal matters to be rightly described as lying "solely between man and his God," but religion is a social endeavor of like minded peoples. This discussion began as you tried to equate the publication of cartoons with world wide eruptions of violence. Said eruptions of violence being perpetrated by muslims. They do so in full harmony with the example set for them by mohamhead.


Blogger dag said...

Let's keep trying, mate. We're at the library on thursady evening, and we are gaining attention from a number of viewers across the globe. This marathon is impressive. We're going to win. In time there will be a shift in public opinion, and then we will be in a postion to lead it to where the truth is the norm. It's a tough go, I understand well, but we will win.

Regards, Dag.

6/21/2006 01:58:00 PM  

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